Photo by Damien Donck

Editor of Newsweek International and a columnist for Newsweek and the Washington Post, Fareed Zakaria has written a new book, The Post-American World, that predicts the rise of new global superpowers in a world where American hegemony is a thing of the past. 02138’s Sean McManus spoke with Zakaria on the future of the Muslim world, whether American kids are decadent, and why he works out to Charles Dickens.

You are responsible for covering the entire globe. How do you prioritize?
The most important thing is the column. What subject should I choose? Do I have anything value-added to say about it? How do I report on it properly? Who do I call? What should I read?

All these things feed into each other. When we are deciding the cover for Newsweek International, it’s like having meetings with an intelligence agency. There are all these people around the world saying, ‘This is what’s interesting.’ So then we decide what the most interesting is.

But I also step back, every now and then, and consider: If I were to write a book, what are the broad themes here? Is there a big story people are missing?

When did you start conceptualizing this book, was there a moment that sparked it?
Around the beginning of the Iraq War, say 2004-2005, I was traveling a lot, and I began to notice a divergence. The U.S. was concerned with rising anti-Americanism. But I realized that the world wasn’t anti-American, it was post-American. Other countries were becoming fascinated by their own stories—their growth, their economic and political modernization. That was where the energy and attention was located, in say, India, China, Brazil, and elsewhere.

What other countries would you say are on the rise?
Look at Korea. Most people think of that country as almost entirely dependent on America. But when you talk to Koreans, you see things changing dramatically. Ninety percent of all movies shown in Korea used to come from Hollywood. Now it’s 50-50. That means the emergence of an indigenous pop culture with its own celebrities. And that phenomenon has changed the way people look at the West. Growing up in India, we used to look to America and then look to Donald Trump as the symbol of wealth. Now there are probably 30-40 people richer than Donald Trump in India. So all of a sudden you’re more interested in your own billionaires (or multi-billionaires) than the ones in New York.

With the emergence of different versions of capitalism, how far can countries stretch the definition of “free markets” and still have a successful capitalist system?
We are all living within the broad framework of capitalism … [As it says in the New Testament,] ‘In my father’s house there are many mansions Many paths to the same ending point.’”

Look, Sweden has high taxes compared to low taxes in the U.S. And in some countries the presence of government is bigger than others. As long as market factors are at play within large swaths of the economy then I think it can probably work.

Now, I’ll agree that when you look at countries like Russia and China, there’s something very odd about the level of state intervention. And I would have to guess that, over time, it’s not sustainable. There must be further marketization of those economies or there will be some level of stagflation.

How loud are the voices promoting market reform in China and India?
China and India have voices for reform, but they are in the minority. Most follow a 1960s social democratic tradition and think that if the country modernizes that only the elites will do well, that there will be growing economic disparity, etc. But this is entirely belied by the facts. India has moved 150-200 million people out of poverty. That’s a statistical fact; you can see it in any Indian village.

You talk a lot about religion in your book. How important is secularization to the future success of emerging countries?
[People seem to be hoping for] an Islamic “Reformation.” But you can’t have a reformation without a pope, and there is no pope in Islam. What’s really going on is a broader process towards modernization. Look at Indonesia, Malaysia, and Turkey, where socially conservative parties turned out to be forces for liberalism. This is where the energy is. They are still technically theological, but there is day-by-day, de facto secularization. [Islam] will make its peace with the modern world just like Christianity made its peace in the nineteenth century. Americans get scared because they know very little about this world. The world is so much less threatening and more friendly and exciting than anybody realizes.

Chinese companies have a growing presence in Africa. Is the U.S. missing out on opportunities there?
We are missing some of the opportunities in Africa, and I’m not sure why, since Americans have generally been assertive in the world of globalization. I’m very struck by Africa, since it’s actually very pro-American. They look to America as a model. Their intellectuals trash us, but the people in Africa like America.

Is this book as a call to arms?
The fundamental message of this book is: The world is going our way. We’ve been trying to get it to do this for decades. This is a moment to celebrate. But you’re going to have to run faster, sharpen your own skills, and get better. Young people see this. Unfortunately, Washington is brain dead. It’s living in a time warp and thinks of itself as center of the universe.

Am I right that your book suggests that Americans may be too decadent to fully compete?
I don’t get the sense of an American society that is overly decadent. I do see a political system that is totally dysfunctional. The problems we face are reasonably simple ones which could be dealt with if we had an ounce of bipartisanship and problem-solving skill. But Washington is deadlocked, paralyzed.

What do you read when you travel?
Books are the single most important means of transmitting ideas and information. I’m desperately waiting for Kindle 2.0. I love the idea. When I travel, I take 20 books with me. But I don’t know which ones will be terrible, or the ones I can read very fast, or the ones that are articles masking as books. The advantage of Kindle [an e-book reading device from Amazon] is you can put 200 books on it. I do find the screen bothersome, so I haven’t yet converted. But I’m close.

What’s on your iPod?
I have Bollywood songs, Sufi music from Pakistan, Western classical, jazz, and then books, poetry. I like listening to poetry, it’s meditative. I work out to Dickens; it’s the kind of stuff that you can listen to without paying much attention. If you miss 25 pages it doesn’t matter.

Do you have time for fiction?
Some. My wife voraciously reads all contemporary fiction. I’m suspicious; I say give it 100 years.

What are some cities the U.S. could learn from?
We should all learn more from Singapore, which is one of the most efficient cities in the world. [But] Americans tend not to learn from anyone. If you go to Switzerland and look at the way trains work—they have the best train service in the world. They’re not showy like the French and Japanese systems, but it all works, all on time, and it’s not hideously expensive. Americans could learn from Switzerland, any city in Switzerland. It’s a funny, charming country. There’s very little in Asia, frankly. East Asians cities are very ugly and unappealing versions of Houston, with all kinds of glass and steel towers and very little sense of community. Jane Jacobs would have a heart attack.